During the late 70’s, in San Francisco, the punk scene was a smoldering powder keg that was set to explode. Out of it would come such seminal bands as Flipper, The Units, Negative Trend and of course the Dead Kennedys. But the band that truly lead the way was fronted by the unlikeliest of people. A gifted and talented artist, Penelope Houston, who came from Seattle to the San Francisco scene and became the voice of The Avengers, a band that was directly inspirational to the bands that came after. Recently, The Avengers played a club show at Punk Rock Bowling. It was there I was lucky enough to sit down with Penelope and talk to her about The Avengers, her life and the future for the band.
Check the interview here.
Dying Scene: “How did The Avengers form?”
Penelope: “The Avengers formed in 1977. Danny Furious was from Orange County in Fullerton, and was living in San Francisco. He had brought a friend from Fullerton, Greg Ingraham the guitar player, up to San Francisco to try to start a band. I had met Danny in art school and hung around their warehouse space and tried out their P.A. when no one else was there and said “Hey I am going to be your singer.”
Dying Scene: “How did the Winterland show come about?” (Winterland was the last ever show for the Sex Pistols in San Francisco, of which The Avengers opened.)
Penelope: “The Sex Pistols’ tour manager, Rory Johnston, was interested in managing The Avengers, so he got us on as main support.”
Dying Scene: “With 2 EP’s to The Avengers credit, the Avengers still left a huge footprint on the punk world. What do you attribute that to?”
Penelope: “I think that some of it has to do with Danny and Jimmy gathering together the 2 ep’s and a bunch of other stuff and putting out the Pink album in 1983. Although we broke up in 1979, a lot of things were still going on in the 80’s. And a lot of people were influenced by the Pink album when it came out. I think our legacy got cemented at that time.”
Dying Scene: “Steve Jones really became enamored with the band. How did he approach you?”
Penelope: “It was through Rory Johnston. The Sex Pistols had just broken up and I think he went to Brazil to do some file. Steve wanted to try his hand at producing. Rory said “Hey, how about the Avengers?” Steve felt like that was a good idea and came to San Francisco. We recorded four songs with him.”
Dying Scene: “How did that lead to your working with The Screamers?”
Penelope: “I already knew the screamers from Seattle. I knew Tomata and Tommy from back then. We played with the Screamers and were friends with the Screamers. The Screamers started working with this film maker Rene Daalder. He was putting a film together and was interested in me.”
Dying Scene: “Penelope, You are very accomplished. You went to Fairhaven College and San Francisco Art Institute. It seems like a lot of people feel that punks are uneducated street urchins. Would you feel that there is a bias against punks as being uneducated?”
Penelope: “I would say just like any other portion of the populace. There are smart people and those who just get by. People that follow the punk ethos are people that are thinking about where they are in society, and thinking about society. When you make the decision to be a punk, you are stepping out of the main stream.”
Dying Scene: “You are on the cutting edge and one of the pioneers of the angst driven folky punk rock. Did that always appeal to you?”
Penelope: “No, interestingly I listened to a lot of British folk as a kid. Bands like Pentangle, The Incredible String Band and Fairport Convention. I kind of forgot about that. When I got into punk, I became wholly immersed in punk. Later in life I went back to the folk music and realized I loved it. What really got me back into acoustic music were people like Tom Waits. Swordfishtrombones was a big turning point in the idea of using different sounds, not having a bass drum and guitar line up. Also the Violent Femmes and their direction of folky but still punk, with a darkness and still a punk edge. I was really attracted to that kind of music. When I started doing folky music, it was on the darker side with some pointed lyrics.”
Dying Scene: “Did you find it was harder to be accepted due to your darker lyrics and more angst driven songs?”
Penelope: “Well the folkies didn’t accept us at all. This would have been in the 80’s. The punks were just horrified. There was talk like “Oh my god! You’re not doing punk rock anymore? You sold out?” The folkies we kind of like, “Ah-uhmm, this isn’t folk this is something else.” So we really had to forge our own way.”
Dying Scene: “The sold out label seems to be so overused.”
Penelope: “I remember being on the maximum rock-n-roll radio show. And Tim, the host, and I talked a bit before the show. I went on there and I was playing some very quiet music at that point. It was very early on in the mid 80’s. And Tim said, “Well umm, people feel you really sold out. What do you have to say about that?” I was really shocked because I was on the air. I felt as though if I had really sold out I would still be doing a punk band and still be doing the Avengers. And here I am in Las Vegas doing the Avengers. (Laughs) We are still driving around in an econoline van that broke down 23 times coming here from L.A. So if I truly sold out, it was for no money. We would have a tour van and driver if we truly did sell out.”
Dying Scene: “A lot of people say that the 14 albums you put out on your own is some of your best music. Are there any that you love more than any other?”
Penelope: “I would have to say that I am very fond of the new one, On Market Street. It took me seven years to write it all and go into the studio. I brought together some of my favorite musicians in the bay area. I used my favorite studio there in Fantasy Studios. And I am very, very happy with it. Aside from that one a lot of people really like Birdboys. That was the first acoustic one I did. It had an interesting jangle-rock sound that seemed to be happening at the time. It was my break away from punk album for me. A lot of people seemed enamored by Birdboys. I, however, always seem to like my most recent album the most.”
Dying Scene: “Have you ever questioned your career choice?”
Penelope: “I haven’t. It is interesting you were talking about my schooling. I am actually back in school now at San Francisco State, about to get a B.A in studio arts. So the only other thing I wanted to do besides music, is visual arts and I am doing that now. If you just concentrate on one thing your whole life, you may stand a better chance at success and making a living at it. I have never doubted my career choice. I do feel as though I could have focused more on music and made more of it. I have no regrets though. For me it is more about the songs I have written, not about the rock star lifestyle and how many people come to your shows. For me it has always been about the music.”
Dying Scene: “Has music ever become work or not fun for you?”
Penelope: “No, we formed the avengers for instance. And our tours have never been more than a month long, and they are kind of sporadic. It has never really felt like work for me. It has always been a pretty joyous thing for me. I have always enjoyed the people I am playing with and always enjoyed the songs. I think that if it ever really felt like it started to become work then I wouldn’t do it. I have an actual job that pays my mortgage and my bills. When I get to go out on tours it is just fun. I like to make money to be sure my musicians can get a decent wage for their hard work.”
Dying Scene: “What is next for Penelope Houston?”
Penelope: “Well the Pink Album Deluxe has just been released and we are celebrating that. We will be planning an East Coast tour at some point. We are heading to Europe for most of July for a European tour.”
Dying Scene: Thank you Penelope.
Penelope: Its been a pleasure.