DS Interview: Alex Cox Talks “Dead Souls,” Westerns, and Punk Rock

Director Alex Cox has been making films since the late 1970s, starting with his first short film, Edge City. After writing Repo Man in 1978, Cox finally sold the film to Mike Nesmith of The Monkees, who got Universal Studios to back the film. Cox hired punk rockers and punk bands, such as the Circle Jerks and the Untouchables, to populate his version of Los Angeles, a practice he would continue in his next few films: Sid and Nancy, Straight to Hell, and Walker.  

Alex Cox’s early films are cult classics among punk rockers, film students, and other seekers of the strange. However, in 1988, Cox was essentially blacklisted from Hollywood. Since then, he has been working outside the Hollywood system, opting to work independently and mostly on his own terms, raising funds as needed. If there’s anyone who’s body of work has kept the punk rock ethos through out his career, its Alex Cox.

Cox has continued to present stories using his unique voice and take on genres; one in particular is Westerns. Cox has spent many years studying and presenting his interpretation of them. Whether it be in a more modern setting, as with the films Straight to Hell or Searchers 2.0, or period pieces with unexpected elements like Walker or Tombstone Rashomon Cox has done extensive work in the genre and continues to push its limits in new and unexpected ways. 

We caught up with Alex Cox to talk about his new film Dead Souls, Westerns, and some of his older films. 

Dying Scene ( Forrest Gaddis): Tell us about your current movie, Dead Souls. 

Alex Cox: It’s a Western, written by me and Gianni Garko, based on Gogol’s Dead Souls, shot last year in Almería and Arizona with two crews, one Spanish, one American.

What drew you to adapt Gogol’s Dead Souls as a Western and what themes still feel relevant?

I’m always looking for excuses to make Westerns, and Gogol’s story, with its hero crossing vast distances for mysterious reasons, is a natural. What are its themes? What I drew from the story was the commodification of human beings – whether they be serfs, or slaves, or prisoners, or “illegal” workers or “collateral damage” – but the book no doubt has many other themes. Since it isn’t finished (Gogol only completed volume one of three) we don’t know what Chichikov’s purpose was, or how it all ends.

What attracts you to the Western Genre?

The desert! Some fine Westerns, such as The Great Silence, don’t take place there. But most of them do.

Is there any part of the Western Genre that doesn’t work for you and what have you done to make that aspect your own?

The worst aspect of the Western, and all narratives, is that it can be reduced to a story of good versus evil, where good (i.e., middle-class capitalism in support of railroads and genocide) triumphs. Good Westerns usually do not do this. Some examples are The Searchers, Kirk Douglas’ Posse, Sergio Leone’s films, A Bullet for the General, and Sollima’s, Questi’s, Petroni’s, Lizzani’s, and Peckinpah’s Westerns.

You’ve said this may be your last film. How has that shaped your approach to Dead Souls?

I called the Kickstarter campaign ‘my last movie’ to encourage people to support the project, in the same way as The Who have announced multiple farewell tours. Will it be my last movie? Possibly. I’m 70 years old and raising money for films is very time-consuming.

How did crowdfunding shape the creative process compared to traditional financing?

If you work for a single financier they will most likely have a say in the project, particularly in terms of casting. With El Patrullero, the Japanese executive producers gave us complete casting freedom. Usually, that isn’t the case – unless the budget is so low that you can’t afford ‘star’ actors. In the case of a $250K crowdfunded film, no one is pushing you in that hopeless direction. 

Can you tell me a little about how you got into punk rock? How active in the LA punk scene were you while you were at UCLA?

Devo was the first punk band I saw, in a basement in Hollywood off the Strip. Then there were all these LA bands – the Plugz, the Screamers, X, Black Flag, Circle Jerks, Wall of Voodoo, GoGos (they were a punk band at first, and not all glamorous). More bands visited. I saw 999, Gang of Four, Talking Heads, and The Clash. The Sex Pistols were supposed to come to LA, but they broke up in San Francisco, the day before. Happy times.

Repo Man and Sid & Nancy are classic punk rock movies. How did punk ideology influence the storytelling and aesthetic of your films?

You would have to ask a film critic. I don’t analyse the stuff – just churn it out.

Was there any pushback from the Repo Man script, in regards to it skewering American culture, but being written by someone from England?

Michael Nesmith, the executive producer, liked the script a lot.

I don’t think the execs at Universal ever read it.

I know Repo Man 2 is in the works. Is any of that script based on Waldo’s Hawaiian Holiday or connected to Repo Chick?

Neither one. Right now Repo Man 2: the Wages of Beer is just a mouldering press release. But who knows?

You’ve worked with musicians like Joe Strummer, Courtney Love, Elvis Costello, and The Pogues. What did they bring to a set that trained actors could not?

The ability to play musical instruments! Some actors can’t do that but all musicians can. On Dead Souls I worked with a number of actor-musicians – Ed Tudor Pole, Sarah Vista, Zander Schloss, Javier Arnal, Dick Rude. Some actors are trained, some are not. Some people have a natural acting talent, a talent for impersonation, and telling stories.

You’ve said punk rock wasn’t just about music, it was about “bringing down the government.” How does that manifest in your films now?

When did I say that? And which government? The funny thing is that punk rock burst forth in rebellion against the Labour Government in England and Carter in the US. There were definitely many things to complain about in the late 1970s, but we rebel punks had no idea how bad things were about to get. 

Is there an era of your filmmaking you consider your best, and a film from that era?

Again, that’s a question for somebody else to answer. I like almost all the films I made. There was very good source material – Borges, William Walker – and I worked with some very good writers – Rudy Wurlitzer, Lorenzo O’Brien, Tod Davies, Thomas Middleton…

Do you feel your films are misinterpreted by the audience? Which one do you think is the most misunderstood?

I hope they aren’t misinterpreted. I try to be pretty clear about things and to make the story comprehensible to the viewer. If a film has a point, then you want that point to come across. I think Sid & Nancy may be a failure in that regard. Abbe Wool and I wanted to make a salutary tale about a frivolous pair who betrayed the punk ethos (Sy Richardson’s speech in the methadone clinic is what the film was all about) but a sentimental stew ensued.

Are there any movies or projects that didn’t work out that you wish had?

There are a couple of scripts I wrote with Rudy – Body Parts and Out of Control – which I would still love to make. They are 1980s action thrillers set in Tucson and Central America. Both are coming out as a book soon – one of those double novels you turn upside down to read in both directions. 

Where can we buy your books or films?

Where to buy my books? I always check Thriftooks and A Libris, or go to the bookshop in town. Or the library! 

You can order new books or discs online directly from the publisher (Oldcastle / Kamera books in my case, disks from BFI in England and Kino Lorber in the US). No Amazon or its subsidiaries (AbeBooks etc.)

A number of Alex’s films are also available on the Criterion Collection. For updates on all things Alex Cox. Check out his website, here.